Why I'm no longer an active CCIE
July 1st, 2008 marks another milestone in my professional career: I became an inactive CCIE. Before going into the details of why I decided not to go for the recerfitication exam (I haven't even tried to go there), let me just say that I've been working in the networking industry for 25 years and had the CCIE status for the last 13 years. I no longer see myself craving for jobs where the activity of my CCIE status would count and the "Benefits of CCIE Membership" (including the party at Cisco Live! event) are not coming close to giving me any motivation to extend the status.
However, the real reason I decided not to extend my active status lies in the process. Years ago, Cisco organized update trainings for CCIEs. Attending one of these trainings (which really added value to your knowledge) extended your status. In my opinion, an update training combined with a post-training exam would make sense. Like many other features of the program, these trainings are long gone.
Passing a written exam every two years with more-or-less the same questions is (in my personal opinion) bogus. It does not require me to grow or acquire new knowledge, it just forces me to re-read the IP multicast and IS-IS student kits we've developed. It's simply a tick in the box and I'm no longer willing to participate in this charade. To make matters worse, the tests were not exactly accurate over the years I had to take them. When I was developing (the then only) EIGRP training for internal Cisco audiences, I lost most points on EIGRP questions simply because I knew too much about the protocol. A few years ago I was faced with purely marketing questions about a newly-promoted technology that were obviously hastily added to the pool of questions. To be honest, I was told that the current test should be better that my past experiences, but I decided I will not find out how true that is. I had enough.
However, the real reason I decided not to extend my active status lies in the process. Years ago, Cisco organized update trainings for CCIEs. Attending one of these trainings (which really added value to your knowledge) extended your status. In my opinion, an update training combined with a post-training exam would make sense. Like many other features of the program, these trainings are long gone.
Passing a written exam every two years with more-or-less the same questions is (in my personal opinion) bogus. It does not require me to grow or acquire new knowledge, it just forces me to re-read the IP multicast and IS-IS student kits we've developed. It's simply a tick in the box and I'm no longer willing to participate in this charade. To make matters worse, the tests were not exactly accurate over the years I had to take them. When I was developing (the then only) EIGRP training for internal Cisco audiences, I lost most points on EIGRP questions simply because I knew too much about the protocol. A few years ago I was faced with purely marketing questions about a newly-promoted technology that were obviously hastily added to the pool of questions. To be honest, I was told that the current test should be better that my past experiences, but I decided I will not find out how true that is. I had enough.
However, that's the only place where I strongly support Cisco's position ... and I always have so much fun reading provocative posts from people that use blogs hosted by respected industry publications to promote their agenda (whatever that is).
With all you know now. Would you recomend to someone to get their CCIE now-a-days, or do you think knowledge and experiance enough?
Thanks,
Seriously though - you have made it and lost the touch with the reality out there... We mere mortals still need to recertify and do whatever needs to be done to stay in the game. Thanks for rubbing this into out faces.
I already saw someone ask, but here gose again:
- Is it worth it for a younger engineer to go and achieve CCIE
- What will you focus on now - I just want to see the career path of an inactive(Ex) CCIE
Since there is no financial benefit to being certified (at least not in my specific situation), I feel as if my time will be better spent educating myself about the technologies I need to make my network function better. A greater familiarity with the ubiquitous 6500 platform and planning design enhancements to improve resiliency during failures are issues not addressed by the CCIE program that are highly relevant to my day-to-day world.
Yes, the quality control on the recert exam is poor. Very poor.
A lifetime CCIE for ten year veterans? No way. I had to be a guru on IPX, Banyan Vines, XNS, and Appletalk as well as IP when I originally got my CCIE. In another ten years technologies would have changed again.
Recertification may be flawed, but it forces those who claim CCIE status to keep there skills moderately up-to-date.
Are there extremely skilled people out there who have let their CCIE status lapse? Yep. Are there people out there with great cisco skills who have never got a CCIE. You bet.
In all, I'm not sorry I have the CCIE and I'll continue to recert.
People like Ivan, CCIE or not, don't have to prove anything to anyone. If you have a significant body of work that is verifiable, chances are you'll never need a CCIE to begin with. Experience and actual knowledge count very highly, again unless you're working for a channel partner.
I don't agree with a 10-year automagic certification for life award, but the fact that you can say that you maintained a CCIE for 10 years (5 recerts potentially) is in and of itself an accomplishment.
I agree that the recertification process is 'annoying', but it's not really that expensive (although living in BFE and adding in fuel cost and it's not a vacation you want to pay for). If you're not making enough money as a CCIE-level networking professional you're doing something wrong or you've overextended your finances to complain about the minimal cost of the recert. Also, ask your employer to pay for it.
I love the idea of continuing education.
I focus on the technology and as such it has allowed me to thrive in every NEM's product-line, in addition to actually implementing all the major protocols (routing and otherwise) from the ground-up at a new NEM.
Believe me, if you think you know the technologies, try protocol implementation/analysis and you'll find out quickly that you take things for granted as a typical network engineer... things like 'turning on LDP' or 'configuring IPSec peers utilizing ISAKMP for keying', so on and so forth. So that's an interesting career path for those who love to dissect specifications and know the protocols and operational configuration of multi-vendor equipment.
If you're a younger engineer, by all means acquire some level of certification. If it allows you to get your foot in the door somewhere to gain experience, then do it. Don't be concerned what people think about certifications, just apply yourself and do the best job you can because that's really what counts.
I'd love to be able to work in Montana, gorgeous country and I have friends and family in the Great Falls area.
From the looks of things, Slovenia looks good too =D
The only thing that is annoying about the written test is the actual test itself. I don't like the testing-taking trickery they use and it certainly feels like you have to prepare for it by divining what it is they're looking for instead of just wielding your concrete knowledge of the subject matter.
Have you considered trying for the CCDE?
ryan
I fully agree that mandatory continuing education credits, especially advanced refresher training (webinars..) are needed and much more beneficial than the current 2 year written exam.
Finally, CCNPs in US earn around $70K/year (the first result I got on a Google search). Convert that to EUR and consider that there are usually no hidden employer expenses in US (like health or pension insurance in Europe) - you have to compare 70K with your gross-gross salary (which you never see on your paycheck).
I will say without a doubt that a CCIE or any other cert does not make anyone an expert. That comes with experience and the hands on knowledge that is not going to be found in a book or exam. You dont need to have a CCIE to work your way up to a six figure salary and be at the top of your game. My point is that handing Cisco thousands of dollars to get these certs is not going to open a magic door with lots of money. I lived in books and had years of experience which helped me get where I am. The learning was more important to me than getting certs. No disrespect to those who have achieved any cert but there are many paths to success....
I at one time had about every cert you could hold, and then I let all of them go, mostly because I was too busy doing real world design than wasting endless after hours in a home lab to recert, and now I haven't had any active certs from any vendor in probably 7 years. I was scouted by Cisco and took an Engineering position with them last year, and don't hold a single active Cisco cert.
Its not about what letters trail your name but what proven success you have had in the industry.
I disagree with " threshold of experience and a proven project and implementation track record, you don't need them anymore." How do you prove this with a resume/cover letter..how do you prove this in a hour interview"...references?...less reliable than certs.....good luck putting your extensive experiences on a resume and then having people actually read it..
"Certs to learn something new"...not your style Ivan...you push yourself well beyond what most certs do natively...(unlike most 20+ year professionals).
CCIE for IVAN....of course it really doesn't matter for you.....you could send out your name and contact info on a blank piece of paper and you would receive 1000 job offers the next day....however, most of us "John Smiths" don't have that luxury.
In my years of varied experience with networks big and small, I have NEVER seen RIP in operation. I have seen hundreds of networks. This test had many questions on RIP.
I have only seen EIGRP in operation when I was removing it in favor of OSPF. This test had many questions about EIGRP.
It has truly become a "vendor's test" where you have to know about Cisco-proprietary features above/beyond the IETF/IEEE standards. All of these proprietary features with little focus on standards makes for an annoying test.
The filler is worse. I won't disclose any questions - one was about "internet history" - asking the name of the algorithm at the heart of a seldom used protocol. Knowing this does not give any indication to your technical knowledge or capability. Full disclosure: I knew the answer. I'll keep emeritus going for now. $85/yr is cheap storage for something that I paid a lot to get/keep in the first place... and I might need it later.
I completely agree with Evan that a CCIE or any other cert will not make one expert rather it comes through experience and working knowledge. Moreover I found human beings to be more interesting to work with rather that inert machines. It gives me more satisfaction and challenge due to their uniqueness. I have moved to the domain of Clinical Psychology.
https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/community/certifications/cisco-continuing-education-program
However, my day to day job doesn't focus on Cisco exlusively and I don't remember the tiny bits of detail about EIGRP/RIP and even OSPF (But, once I need it I can google it).
Retaking this written exam and memorizing all these tiny bits of detail, just to forget them again after a week, seems a waste of time and a waste of slots in my brain.
And change the re-certification program to a seminar or something more productive than this stupid worthelss exam.